lee's locked bowline

ice climbing, mountaineering, adventure trad), you probably don’t need to make the change. More importantly, I know well, based on my own experience, even the well-set correct Yosemite Bowline can get loose during a course of a day. Are websites a good investment? Bowline is more difficult for partners to check (partly because many modern climbers don't know it in the first place).

Bowline is especially vulnerable for cross-loading. 1. Any knot is only useful for the scenarios it was designed for, and part of knot-craft is knowing what the knots are designed to do, not just how to tie them. Always test your knots before use and consult a professional climbing guide for guidance. Product/Service. Even after severe tension is applied it is easy to untie. So they throw around the term ‘Bowline’ as if it were a catch-all phrase to demonize all ‘Bowlines’ as being ‘unsafe’. Proving Ridge Regression is strictly convex, Short story called "Daddy needs shorts", baby unconsciously saves his father from electrocution, Telling my supervisor about my medical condition. Scotts locked Bowline is inherently secure and fit for purpose. I have to add that the Double Bowline (usually called "Bowline on the Bight") is not unsafe and is one of two "official recommended" Knots for tying in in most of Europe. Before trusting your life to any of these knots, you should verify their efficacy in a safe environment and ensure that you are thoroughly familiar with their construction. There are a few, and we’ll examine them in detail soon. I confess I have been using Yosemite Bowline knot as my harness tying point for well over a decade for indoor or summer single-pitch climbing. This could potentially allude to methods for attaching to the rope, but the study is unclear.

Summary of failure mode: The proposition tendered by that person could apply to any knot - to single out Scotts locked Bowline is non-sensical.

+1 - The bowline is great for a lot of things, just not holding a person's life. Allowed HTML tags:

1. . Just as a security note concerning the phrasing of the question: This knot can not be called a very safe knot, certainly not a completely safe knot (the existence of such a thing is generally debatable).
   
   The Bowlines best application is possibly tree or post belays, but even here after moderate loading it can be hard to untie and a better choice would be round turn + 2 half hitches. Yosemite Bowline knot has served me well so far. The answer is the same as with many climbing conundrums – it depends. The paper has been fully revised and updated and includes detailed information about all of the inherently secure Bowlines. Agreed. I speak from the 30 yrs climbing and 10 yrs Industrial Rope Access experience. That person simply posted an experience that he was involved with - with a deliberately loosened knot and a deliberately induced snag. Your words 'Figure 8 is far more foolproof than knot XYZ' is a relative concept. Create New Account.
   
   However, if Yosemite Bowline is tied in a (what I call) wrong-handed way, which is akin to the anti-Lapp Knot configuration, then the main Bowline part basically comes undone. You then mislead the reader into thinking that all 'Bowlines' are somehow unsafe (based on the Yosemite Bowline).
   
   The first is when the tail works its way through the knot, either by cyclical loading, ring loading or slack shaking, all of which occur in varying amounts during climbing. The bowline knot is very safe if loaded correctly. This, however, has not been observed and replicated in any manner which would conclusively confirm this method. Also there is no "wrong side" to do it. There is some limited data from a 2016 German study on climbing gym accidents, and the findings reported that “the most serious crashes were all due to mating failures – a proper and consistent partner check could easily prevent such accidents”. I think the issue is that the bowline variants that people generally use are actually a bit shit for reasons stated in the article. Bowline relies for a part of its strength on an additional stopper knot — in other words, if a stopper knot is not tied (or is undone, as it happens occasionally especially after a prolonged use), it is weaker, and the rope-end may travel through under a high load, even to the point of complete destruction of the knot. Should we ban all harnesses with manual buckles that require the person to feed the belt material back through the buckle to lock it? Thanks for the new data! Also, another advantage is the rope-end is at the outside of the knot and hence is less likely to catch a harness or body, whereas in the standard Bowline or Double Bowline, the rope end and the stopper knot near it touch and catch surrounding things like a harness all the time. The Bowline forms a secure loop that will not jam and is easy to tie and untie. Submitted by Mark Gommers (not verified) on Sun, 2018-06-10 03:45. I feel as though the article has achieved that, and for those who require or desire further information, I have pointed them toward your manifesto on the PACI website. Figure 8’s are the steak dinner of knots. 'http':'https';if(!d.getElementById(id)){js=d.createElement(s);js.id=id;js.src=p+'://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js';fjs.parentNode.insertBefore(js,fjs);}}(document, 'script', 'twitter-wjs'); The content of this field is kept private and will not be shown publicly. Remember, folks – climbing is dangerous! Is it ethical to award points for hilariously bad answers? Checking your tie-in knot is a mission critical action because your life depends on it! I personally still use a figure 8.
   
   Are bowlines strong enough for climbing applications? What is a proper way to support/suspend cat6 cable in a drop ceiling? My conclusion is as follows. He’s done plenty of trad climbing and El Cap climbing, you can’t dismiss him as a single pitch sport climber. This means that, for all intents and purposes, the knot is easy to undo under any and all scenarios to be expected in a lead climbing context. In the first instance, the simple #1010 Bowline (as shown by the OP) - is not and never was intended for climbing.
   Scotts locked Bowline is inherently secure and is fit for purpose in climbing applications. I have done my best to give a laypersons understanding of the need for “inherent security” without labouring the point too much. That could actually be pretty helpful. Unconscious competence; and Which variations are suitable for climbing applications? Look at vehicle accidents in Australia and around the world – put a human behind the wheel and you have potential for mistakes. In other words, even if Yosemite Bowline is tied correctly first, it can get loose and might transform itself to the wrong-handed configuration over a course of a day of activity by the wearer. I am a strong believer of Murphy's law: Anything that can go wrong will. I'm happy with this in a sport context with frequent tieing and untieing. It is stronger, and is even easier to untie after the load, than the standard Bowline. … Personally, I still use a Figure 8. That is, no further tail maneuvers are required to lock down the structure (eg by adding a further ‘stopper / backup’ knot). See Pit Schubert, Sicherheit und Risiko in Fels und Eis. (to receive new contents via email) Gommers observed that the collar of the End Bound Single Bowline (EBSB) was able to be manipulated under 10kN of force, which is to say that you can place a metric ton of force on the knot and still shift the collar by hand. 2. Having read the thread, I agree with you Mark. This is one of the reasons why I am releasing my technical papers into the public domain (free-of-charge)…to provide a technically accurate reference material which will hopefully filter through to the masses and improve our collective knowledge.
   
   
   In contrast, #1047 Figure 8 is neither ‘PET’ nor jam resistant.
   
   Why is the rate of return for website investments so high? Do you realize that you are circulating misinformation into the public domain? Mark Gommers, Submitted by MH (not verified) on Thu, 2018-06-28 10:48. That said, self-reliance is a key attribute in the sport of climbing, and those who are confident and practiced in tying a bowline should feel no reluctance in its use. If you’ve ever wept tears of inadequacy onto a welded knot after a big whipper (or a series of smaller ones), you’ve probably wondered if there’s a better alternative than the ubiquitous Figure 8. Bowline's stopper knot sits inside the main loop of the knot, and therefore, when it is used as the tie-in point to the harness, the stopper knot touches and catches a harness and/or other things around it all the time, and hence is more likely to get undone than the one with Figure-of-Eight (n.b., Figure-of-Eight knot, unlike Bowline, does not need a stopper knot in the first place for the purpose of extra strength). Given that most climbers are more familiar with the Figure 8 as a tie-in knot, most belay partners will generally have no problem identifying faults at a glance. In response, manufacturers offer self-locking type harness buckles to try to eliminate human error.
   
   Shortening a shoulder-length sling to half-length? Product/Service . Each of these bowline variants has been tested and shown to be secure… but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t test them yourself! Perhaps it would be good to write more about the bowline variants climbers actually use, as I haven’t seen those above in the wild. It was invented/discovered by sailors and it is perfectly fine for use on a sailing vessel. Therefore, I believe it’s worth noting that tying in with a bowline has a slightly different risk profile than tying in with a figure 8, a knot in which essentially all climbers are familiar. Your article is misleading because it zeros in on one particular type of 'Bowline' (the Yosemite Bowline) - which is known to have have certain vulnerabilities. The disadvantage to these knots is that they are often harder to tie and harder to inspect. (A similar tucking is recommended (by me) with that DAV-recommended tie-in. Every knot could fail if you construct a scenario that it wasn't designed for. There is no such failure mode - the original poster on the IGKT website is not a licenced test laboratory or an expert on knot testing. The Bowline knot (and its variants) have two advantages over Figure-of-Eight, that is, it is easier to untie, which is handy after the knot is heavily loaded (by falls), and is marginally quicker to tie. This rarity has occasionally created a certain brand of stigma and even led some to denounce the bowline as a death knot. It was not designed (or intended) for life critical applications such as rock climbing. Mistakes and omissions are possible, and the use of the information contained in this document does not imply responsibility to the author for death, injury or harm that may result.
   
   In a word, yes. 5. This is a very consistent and solid method to get the nipping loop set up. Reply: This statement is factually incorrect. A mention should be given to Edwards Bowline.
   

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